What do you think

MM everyone:

I came across the following article in the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel and wanted to post it to get your reactions.

Chanting, bonfire lead police to woman's backyard
Posted: Aug. 14, 2007

Waukesha - A woman accused of disturbing neighbors by yelling witch chants around a bonfire she had built 10 feet from her home was arrested early Tuesday, police Capt. Mike Babe said.
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Brenna K. Barney, 42, of Waukesha told police they were infringing on her religious beliefs since she is a Wiccan and she was performing a ritual under the new moon, Babe said. She told police her name is Brenna Raven Moonfire.

Criminal charges of resisting arrest and disorderly conduct were filed against Barney later Tuesday in Waukesha County Circuit Court. Police might also give Barney a ticket alleging negligent handling of burning materials, Babe said.

Babe provided this account:

Neighbors in the 2300 block of Madison St. called police at 12:11 a.m. Tuesday. When an officer arrived, he heard the woman yelling in the backyard and found her wearing headphones, a T-shirt and underwear. An officer tried to get her attention by shining a flashlight on her but she continued yelling her chants.

At one point Barney poured lighter fluid on the fire, in which she was burning rubber car mats and a cooler. Barney refused to cooperate with police and was belligerent, and her breath smelled of alcohol, Babe said.

Four officers were sent to the scene and arrested Barney, who was taken to Waukesha Memorial Hospital, where she continued to yell and swear at officers and hospital staff. After being examined, she was taken to jail.

- Jacqueline Seibel

Needless to say, there have been several other articles written and many blogs concerning this incident. You can search for more information by just putting the women's name in your search engine. But here is my question -

Is this a case of religious discrimination and intolerance?

Before you answer, think about this -

Both Wiccans and most Pagans follow a nature based spiritual path: we revere nature. The woman was burning rubber mats and plastic both of which release toxic fumes. Does this sound like the actions of a person who reverences nature.

The woman lit her bonfire 10' from her home. I know this area of Waukesha; it is well populated. She also poured on lighter fluid to make the fire flare up. Wicca is a religion of personal responsibility. Does this should like she was being very responsible?

One of the precepts of Wicca is harm none. Beside burning questionable materials in what appears to be a rather irresponsible manner, she woke her neighbors up with her chanting.

She was not arrested for Witchcraft, she was arrested for disorderly conduct and resisting arrest. The police may also issue a ticket for negligent handling of burning materials.

Granted, we have only one side of the story here. If you research this further, you will find out additional information such as this woman has had disorderly conduct charges filed against her previously. Police smelled alcohol on her breath. Officers shined a flashlight on her to get her attention, but she continued to shout chants.

The ACLU has been contacted and are apparently proceeding with a religious discrimination lawsuit. My questions are:
In your opinion, with just the data currently available - Does this sound like a case of religious discrimination to you?
Is it a case of a woman acting irresponsibly (who may have either some type of mental problem or an alcohol dependence issue - more mere speculation)?

Another interesting point of discussion - Assuming the data is correct:

Would you consider this person to be following the teachings of Wicca?
Should she even be considered one of the Wicca?
For that matter, would you even consider her Pagan?

We have only heard one side of the story here so that is all we have to judge on. Therefore opinions could very easily change, but what do you think at this time with the data we have available?

Gwyn

You know, having just moved from a town known for its crime; having been woken up at 3am by prostitutes calling to passing cars, by street punks telling the world how cool they think they are at the top of their lungs, drag racers and cop cars zooming by at all hours, I value my quiet nights, thus I have this to say:

I dont care if she's the most HyperGard Gardnarian following EXACTLY the teachings of Uncle Gerry, with regionally exact British accent to boot; you makin' noise at that hour of the night? I'm calling 9-1-1

What this sounds like to me is some drunk or at least off her meds woman whose heard of Wicca and is trying to use it to dodge responsibility for doing something incredibly stupid.
What people like her actually accomplish is they make the rest of us look bad, give credibility to the Thumpers and their claims of drunken witch orgies (yeah, point me to THAT Meetup), and the police are less likely to cut a genuine gathering some slack.
Thanks lady. Really appreciate being associated with you.

-Don

I should add an addendum more clearly defining my position.
Both liberty and pagan should be defined - since the ACLU seems to think it should get involved in this.

Liberty is different from freedom. Freedom is unrestricted action. So, I'm free to walk up and punch you in the nose - in that, I have the physical capacity to do such an action. Why? Felt like it.
Liberty is action so long as it respects the rights of others. So not only can I not punch you in the nose, I cannot even threaten to do so, because that speach would be a violation of your rights.

Pagan. The hard one - because paganism in its modern context is such a large umbrella term, it varies depending on who you are, where you are, how old, etc. So pinning down an exact definition is essentially impossible.
My working definition of pagan is this:
Modern Pagans seek to do two things:
1. Re-examin old civilizatons and cultures to see if their religions, philosophies, mores, have any value. If so, are they applicable to the 21st century? For instance, many feminists have a problem with the abduction of Persephone - that not only was it a culturally sanctioned abduction, but that Persephone might have been just fine getting carried off by Hades - nice, rich husband, daddy Zeus gave the thumbs up....
2. Re-examine the current civilization and culture to see if it has any value. For instance, why are thin women attractive - held as the ideal? Why shouldnt l date a large woman? Be sexually attracted to same? Why is skinny and tall the 'perfect woman' on every runway from Mad. Av. to Paris?

I agree Don - I think all paths that fall under Paganism should define themselves. Might be a bit difficult though - like herding cats. Most Pagans are very individualistic and resist what they consider categorization.

Blessings

Gwyn

I was just thinkg about something else with concern to this issue.

First of all, let me say, based on the data available and some other
that I have been able to gather, I think the woman in the story was
behaving irresponsibly and is trying to use religion to excuse her
actions.

In an urban area, if a Pagan wants to do an
lunar ritual, where can one go? Many Pagans live in apartments or
have neighbors within a few feet of their residence. Although many
cities have parks, but they are closed at night; therefore if you
tried to use them, you might be arrested for being in the park after
hours - and charges might be magnified if say you brought an Athame or
a bottle of wine for libation. I think this question applies for to
covens (or in the case of Pagans groups) wanting to do a group ritual.
The individual, with a bit of common sense, could probably do a
ritual under the moon late at night (or early in the morning) and
could get away with it. But if want to do a group ritual (and don't
have a room in your home or have neighbors nearby)is there someplace
that your group could go that would not entail a great deal of
driving? Although we have many public parks in southeastern WI; they
generally close at 10:00 so it is a problem. Do any of you have a
similar problem?

It would certainly be nice of the park district had an "adopt a site"
program (something like the adopt a highway program). In which it
could be arranged that a group saw to the upkeep of a certain area and
then was able to use it for their lunar rituals. Has anyone every
tried to make such arrangements? If so, were you successful?

I was reminded of this because one full moon last fall, my coven went
to a public park to do a Full Moon ritual. We got started a bit later
than we had anticipated and about 9:45 the ritual was disturbed by a
park attendant flashing his truck lights at us and inquiring why were
there and telling us that the park closed at 10:00 and we had to be
out of it by then. Rather than push the issue, we quickly finished
the ritual (which wasn't hard because you can imagine most of the
energy raised had evaporated by then), cleaned up and left. As we
were leaving, we saw the police arrive - apparently the attendant had
called them. Might have been very bad as we not only had wine, but
were using our athames and the coven sword. Some peole may call it
cowardess and say we should have pushed the issue under religious
discrimination, but I think in this case discretion was the better
part of valor.

First, I dont think I'd call it cowardice. As pagans, we should try to follow the laws as closely as we can. Mianly, because theres a lot of misconception about what we are, and the police are more likely therefore to over-react. If you have a reputation for having all your permits in line, following the letter of the law, they're more likely to cut you some slack. I also hate religions that decide because God is on their side, they can ignore law. Now, some laws need to be fought against, dont get me wrong - as Ghandi said 'There are unjust laws, just as there are unjust men'. But people shouldnt place themselves above the law because they think they're the Chosen Ones and oh-so-special.

That said, maybe you should resurect the role of Man In Black. Its less ominous and less Will Smith than it sounds - in the old context, the MIB is the guy who keeps an eye out for the lynch mob, who knows the identities of the coveners and calls the meetings after scouting out good locations. In its modern incarnation, the MIB would be a sort of ombudsman between your coven and local law enforcement, regulators, citizens watch groups, whatever. He/She'd be the person to scout out the parks that'd be cool with a midnight ritual, or have a chat with the reporter whose heard about a bunch of witches in said park.
You'd want your MIB to be pretty normal looking - no Lauri Cabots or Biker Dudes - Motorhead may kick ass, but you dont go talking to police officers looking like Lemy.

-Don

The whole reason that I started looking in this forum, my reason for being in this virtual world of meet ups, is to find like minded people in Northeast Wisconsin who would like to create a safe place for ritual. My own yard, which abuts a park has served me well, as have many natural areas, but I am looking for a larger permanent space in which many of us could commune in peace together. The woman whose violently non-pagan actions started this discussion would not have been welcome in any context or venue that I would expect to find like minded people in. Despite of the kernel of negativity at the outset, I like where this discussion is going.

People tend to see things that they want to see. We, as pagans, must come to terms with those things that limit us in this place at this time and continue to practice whatever rituals we are compelled toward. I personally had not heard of this crazy woman in Waukesha. One of my personal rituals is writing letters to the editor. It may not be hard to distance ourselves from reckless, toxin spewing troublemakers. A few well chosen words might be all it takes. I believe we must try.This may also require us to create more places like Circle Sanctuary in Southwest Wisconsin. Places we can have our circles in peace. One lone "do-gooder" can certainly bring down the energy, even in a very coherent group. If we let others speak ignorantly for and about us, it only lessens the strength of our own voice.

Frequently there are charges of all kinds, you may have heard them, against us. What I find works well is to stress the morality of fellow pagans, and remind folks of a few of the many injustices perpetrated by organized religions. Always trying to end with another positive account of selfless giving by fellow pagans in service to the non-pagan world. A good example is the maxim added to many incantations, "for the good of all", or the "with harm to none" aspect of our beliefs. I have personally organized the planting of over thirteen thousand trees for the sole purpose of leaving behind a better world for the next seven generations. All that has been provided to me by this effort is personal satisfaction.

Don, you are right on track with the MIB concept. A non-threatening ombudsman is sometimes all it takes to defuse hostility and quell misunderstanding. One thing I have kept from my early days with the Rainbow Family of Light and Love is the concept of Peace Warrior (shanti sena) each of us has both the right and responsibility to stand for what is right. I am willing to be a voice for the oppressed and misunderstood. As such a conduit for truth and justice, I need to be objective and open to many points of view. When closed minds are encountered, our first order is to breathe a little fresh air into the discussion. Hopefully shedding some light on the reality of who we are and what we do.

I am curious if there have been any pagans who have reached out to this misguided woman in Waukesha. It is refreshing to hear cogent discussion of issues that are important to me, thank you all for your energy!

-Tony

Hi there Gwynhwyver,
I was looking into this subject a little deeper and yes this silly woman needs some major help or a right royal kick in the butt, or both which ever comes first!!!

Btw Gwyn, I'm really sorry for upsetting you a while ago as I was going through some coff, coff, personal difficulties because of having to move, business losses and start ups, taking the wrong kinds meds for my illnesses, not being totally honest about things etc... Well maybe this is another reason that the Alexandrian lineage denied me my papers, who knows... Anyways girlfriend, you and Wayland take care and maybe I'll see you on skype.

Many dark and bright blessings,
the former ADSW.

judge not lest you be judged by the standards that you yourself use

Thanks Don for your advice, we are very lucky to have you.

Yeah Don, and Matthew (7:1) too!



M